ronandhappiness:

lytefoot:

ronandhappiness:

burgundydahlia:

lytefoot:

headcanonsandmore:

whatifdestiel:

headcanonsandmore:

okay but instead of harry & ron asking the patil twins to the yule ball they go with each other

they’re dancing pretty goofily during most of the ball & even talking with hermione & viktor a little & suddenly the champions have to dance, right?

it’s a slow song. one about love & friendship. well ron starts leading harry in the dance & things get a little awkward because it wasn’t like before when they were a few feet apart. they’re up really close now. 

but it doesn’t really feel all that weird to ron. harry’s his best mate & it feels right to dance with him like this.  & then it hits him. maybe he doesn’t really see harry as his best mate at all. maybe harry is meant to be something more than that. 

so he leans in and gives harry a gentle kiss. 

ron thinks harry is gonna push him away but he doesn’t. harry just wraps his arms around ron and kisses him back. 

and that’s how ron became harry’s first love. 

(sorry if it’s not too good, i’m not much of a writer)

---

That was brilliant, @whatifdestiel! Thank you so much for submitting! Loved it all! 

Not gonna lie, though; I can’t help but wonder what Hermione’s reaction would have been. Jealousy, tears, setting a flock of birds on Harry?..

i might have to come up with something for how hermione reacts when she finds out that ron & harry were together. i personally think she’d be jealous but at the same time understand because “same harry! ron is way too amazing for his own good! it’s a wonder he doesn’t have a line of people waiting to date him!”

“because they know how you get when you are jealous hermione! they’d never dare touch ron with you around! you’d kill them!” 

I’d like to think that it would turn out that way. 

So I wanna talk about this, because it requires a really delicate touch. “What happens with Hermione” is a big challenge when writing Rarry, because it touches on three things that are really important to me in fic.

Most generally, it’s important that characters be entitled to totally justified feelings. In particular, if Ron and Hermione are already together, Hermione is absolutely entitled to be absolutely furious if Ron leaves her for Harry. I read a fic recently that did that really, really well. (She… didn’t actually try to kill them, which made her much more sympathetic.) She had justified angry feelings, but moved past them, and her friendship recovered. Which brings me to the second important thing.

Unless that’s the whole point of your fic, I feel like it’s super important not to break up the Golden Trio. Like, the trio’s love for one another is one of the core things that’s good about Harry Potter to me. Just like you shouldn’t make Ron a useless jerk-off to make Harmonie happen, you shouldn’t make Hermione an evil harpy to make Rarry happen. Furthermore, in the same way you shouldn’t play up how much Harry and Hermione being together breaks Ron’s heart, you shouldn’t play up how much Harry and Ron being together breaks Hermione’s heart. It’s just mean.

And that brings me to the third thing that’s kind of a big deal here–it’s never okay to bash a character for getting in the way of your ship. Because of the history of fanfic, it’s especially important not to bash a female character for getting in the way of a M/M ship. It’s important even when the female character is a cardboard cutout love interest created to highlight the male character’s heterosexuality; it’s even more important with a female character as important and well-developed as Hermione.

So… how is Hermione likely to react to Ron and Harry getting together before Ron and Hermione have articulated their feelings for one another? I don’t think she would react nearly as negatively as she did with Lavender, for a couple of reasons. First, Lavender is someone Hermione actively dislikes, and is an example of a kind of performative femininity that Hermione despises. Hermione is actively insulted when (in her perception) Ron chooses someone like Lavender over her, because Hermione feels very strongly that Lavender’s life choices are inferior to her own. On the other hand, Harry is someone she likes and admires; she knows what someone might see in him, even if she doesn’t. And second, Harry’s a boy. Hermione is very likely to see Ron and Harry getting together as less a “doesn’t like me” thing and more a “doesn’t like girls” thing. (It was the 90s. As someone who was a bi teenager in the 90s, that really wasn’t on the menu, especially for guys. Bi guys were gay but trying to hide it, bi girls were straight but trying to be cool. You still get this kind of biphobic narrative, but it was nearly universal back then. A teenage girl whose crush got a boyfriend would not be thinking “well maybe he’s bi,” she’d he thinking, “he’s gay and I never had a chance.”)

The right analogy for Hermione’s reaction might be, imagine you baked someone a cake and they wouldn’t eat it. You’d be a little annoyed if they picked a well-cooked steak instead, but the steak is still good, and it looks like they just didn’t want dessert. On the other hand, you’d be completely furious if they turned down your cake in favor of a twinkie.

Reblogging for @lytefoot’s (as usual) incredible and spot-on commentary

@lytefoot Hmmm…this is really eye opening.

This turned out to be super long so i’m keeping it in sections:

Lady characters in m/m ships:

Your commentary reminds me of a Dean/Ron fic that I’ve read. It was pretty good but I disliked how they treated Romione and Hermione. They made Ron and Hermione break up because Ron realised he was gay after the war.

I’m sorry…but no. Poor Hermione. I can’t wish that on Hermione. I just can’t. It’s cruel. It’s heartbreaking. Can you imagine crushing on a guy for – let’s go with – five years; seeing how he’s willing to face his phobia for you, fight for you, and get detentions for you, and when you finally pluck up the courage to show your feelings for him, you learn that he’s not even interested in you? 

Yeah, that would hurt. That would hurt a lot.

Hermione was heartbroken, and I was glad that the author didn’t blame it on her, but there was something else that bothered me.  After Ron came out of the closet, he didn’t give a shit about her. Ending Ron and Hermione’s relationship after the war is bad enough, but I can’t imagine Ron Weasley not caring about Hermione even if he weren’t her husband. I can’t imagine losing Romione even if Ron ended up with someone else. I would’ve appreciated any hints that Ron cared about Hermione. I would’ve liked it if we were told that Ron did love Hermione, even if if he didn’t love her like that. All we got was: 

Ron: I realised i was totally into guys and ditched hermione right after we got together lmao

Ron: yeah she was kinda pissed and that ruined our friendship hahahaha

Ron: do i miss her?

Ron: do I feel bad for hurting her?

Ron: will I mention her again?

Ron: …….

Ron: nah

Ron: *goes back to thinking about Dean’s arse*

[Later that day]

Ron: *speaking to a bloke who ditched his girlfriend for another bloke* Lol been there, done that. Chill buddy it’s not a big deal. Hermione got over it

Ron: *starts dreaming about Dean’s arse again*

*sigh* Seriously, guys. Don’t do this in your m/m fanfics. You need to learn how to treat the lady characters, and their friendship with the guys with respect. And no, not turning them into sl*ts or rapists /= respect. Sorry I don’t make the rules.

Ronarry and Romione:

ANYWAY, that’s why I’ve made it clear that Ronarry is an AU ship for me, which is awesome because creativity is awesome. I accept it in these scenarios:

• A world where Hermione doesn’t exist. This is the easiest scenario. Is it bad? It’s born out of my love for Romione and respect for Hermione. No Hermione, no broken heart.
• A world where Hermione had a small crush on Ron but Ron made it clear early on (say, around third or fourth year) that he was gay and in love with Harry. Yeah, Hermione was disappointed but not too upset or jealous. Her crush did not grow because she learned pretty quickly that she never had a chance. The golden trio’s friendship didn’t deteriorate at all, and Hermione became the captain of the Ron/Harry ship. Everyone was happy.

And…that’s it.

No, really. That’s it.

It physically hurts me to ship Ron with someone else, when Hermione is right there and in love with him. Canonically speaking, Hermione loves Ron (even if she has a funny way of showing it), therefore, I can’t seperate them after they’ve gotten together. Disregarding Romione doesn’t upset me because I think Ron can only be validated by Hermione’s love, or because I’m projecting myself into Hermione. It upsets me because I know how much these kids suffered with their feelings of inadequacy, insecurity and jealousy. If I end their relationship, it feels like I’m flushing their efforts down a toilet. It would mean that their efforts meant nothing. Hermione didn’t kiss Ron Weasley in the middle of the war for us to break them up in our fan fiction. Ron Weasley didn’t scream for Hermione in Malfoy Manor for us to break them up in our fan fiction. (Lol, this was supposed to be about Ronarry. How the hell did I start talking about Romione?)

I’m not interested in reading or writing any headcanons where Hermione gets super heartbroken and has to deal with her jealousy regarding the Ronarry. That kinda stuff gives me a headache. It makes me feel guilty for shipping Ron/Harry. Unlike most m/m shippers, I don’t have a fetish for gay smut. I don’t ship Ron/Harry because I have an irrational hatred for a female character for “getting in the way” of a non-canon ship. I ship Ron/Harry for the fluff and the Ronarry cuteness. While I love me some Hermione suffering, she doesn’t deserve to suffer because of Ron/Harry. Realistically speaking, if Ron and Hermione became a couple and then he broke up with her to be with Harry, things would be a little awkward between them. Hermione would feel like shit. Ron would always feel guilty for breaking her heart. And Harry would feel guilty because he’d feel like he stole Ron from Hermione. Ugh, now I have a headache.

Yeah, I don’t want that stuff. Don’t give me the “Hermione and Ron date and then he leaves her for another dude” stuff. I don’t want it.

Female character/Hermione bashing:

I’ve never read a Ronarry fic with Hermione bashing and I doubt I will. Most Harry Potter fans do have respect for Hermione and Hermione bashing is very rare in the HP fandom (And before any Hermione stan jumps at me, no, saying that Hermione makes mistakes does not mean bashing.) However, the reason Ron fans get angry when Ron is demonized or reduced to a useless jerk is because it’s out of character. The whole point of Ron’s arc in the books was that he wasn’t useless and he was very important, so you can excuse us for getting angry when you kill his character in your shitty fic. Adding to that, Abusive!Ron who physically hurts Hermione is out of character. As much as it hurts me to say this, abusive!Hermione who physically hurts Ron is canon. Hermione who can be a little evil is canon. (Please don’t hate me for saying this!)

I personally wouldn’t read a Ronarry fic that has Evil!Hermione, because it’s lazy writing. On the other hand, I understand that it may seem tempting for the fic writer to turn Hermione into a harpy, so Ron could seek comfort in somebody’s else’s arms. We have canonical evidence of Hermione losing her shit when Ron chose someone who wasn’t her, but it’s also easy, lazy, cheap, and lacks creativity, but many writers take the easy route nowadays. Again, I don’t support it because I refuse to bash the lady character just so two boys can be together. I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again: if you need to demonize character A to show how bad they are for character B and how good character C is, then you’re doing it wrong.

Biphobia/Acephobia:

@lytefoot I have a question. You’re saying that if Ron dated Harry, instead of Hermione, she wouldn’t be too upset, because she’d think that he was gay. However, what if Ron were bi or ace or pan instead of gay? Would Hermione be upset then? Say that Ron started dating Harry and Hermione asked him if we were gay. And Ron said something like, “No, I like girls too.” Would Hermione be upset then? Or would she convince herself that Ron was actually gay? Does this Hermione have internalized biphobia? I have a headache again.

Ginny Weasley:

Another reason why Ronarry is an AU ship for me. Because Ginny Weasley. I think it’s douchey to date someone that your sibling has a crush on. 🙂

Lavender Brown:

I’ve always thought that Hermione was angry because Ron dated someone who wasn’t her. The “Hermione gets angry when Ron dates someone who isn’t a good option in her eyes” brings new issues surrounding Hermione’s character and it doesn’t really put her in a positive light. It shows that she has a superiority complex and has put herself on a pedestal. It shows that Hermione thinks that girls who are feminine or not nerdy like her are bad. And I doubt Hermione would’ve been pleased if Ron had dated a smart girl, instead. Actually, that would’ve made things worse because Hermione would’ve thought that she wasn’t smart enough. If you’re right about this, then I like to think that the whole Lavender business was a learning experience for her, and taught her not to underestimate girls (or people in general) who are different from her.

@the-batty-beater I think you would find this helpful.

@ronandhappiness Really nice analysis, and I agree with a lot of that. Please forgive me if I miss a couple points, I’m super brain-fried right now.

Re: AU. I agree, Ronarry is an AU ship for me, too, but a fun one. I’m super happy with Ron and Harry being platonic soulmates and dudes who are capable of touching each other even though they don’t wanna bone. That’s kinda my jam. But Ronarry is so frickin cute.

If I’m going to do Ronarry–or any Harry ship, really, but especially Ronarry–I tone down just how much Ginny was into Harry: much more a “I had such a crush when I was 11” and much less… the kind of Hinny dynamic I love so much in the canon universe. And, I mean, Luna is right there.

And I absolutely tone down how much Hermione is into Ron, too, for Ronarry. That’s a harder one, because canon!Hermione was never really interested in anyone else. (I mean, Krum, but that felt absolutely like “going to a dance with you is fun” and not “I’m totes in love with you” to me.) While I can absolutely imagine Hermione being someone who can be happy single, and it feels bad to pair her off with some rando just to avoid guilt about taking Ron away from her, I also feel guilty about trying to take Ron away from her and have an intense urge to pair her off with some rando.

If you’re pre-HBP (and going canon divergence), you’ve got some plausible deniability on both the Ginny and the Hermione fronts. If you’re post-war by several years, you can pull, “We broke up somehow!” Although dating your sister’s ex is still maybe a little bit bad form.

Or, there’s also @vivithefolle ’s OT3 without the NoTP, but that’s hard, too, given the personalities involved. Harry and Hermione are both so insecure (at least in relationships) and so jealous that it’s hard to get them to share while keeping them in character.

(I do think that concern and respect for characters’ canon partners is an important thing to do when writing fic, just because it’s an important part of keeping them in character.)

Re: disappearing Hermione. Yeah, even if Ron and Hermione have no romantic interest in each other, they clearly care for each other deeply and have an important friendship. They hang out with just each other easily as often as Harry hangs out with just Ron, and that isn’t all mutual pining.

In one respect, that’s almost a genre feature of ship fic. If your fic is about this one relationship, the characters’ other relationships tend to fade into the background. But it’s annoying specifically in HP fic, specifically when it’s one of the trio being disappeared, because they’re, you know, important.

Re: biphobia. I definitely think the knee jerk assumption of “oh, so he’s gay,” is likely to temper Hermione’s immediate emotional reaction to Ron/Harry. If she’s calmed down enough to be actually having a conversation about Ron’s sexuality with him, that immediate emotional reaction is already passed.

I’d say it’s really likely that canon!Hermione has at least some attitudes imbibed from her culture. I tend to write her attitudes as more “fair for the time” than “conservative,” but she definitely has some unexamined notions. I’d expect her to come around fairly quickly, especially an older Hermione who’s already had a little practice in examining her views, but I’d expect her to make an assumptions.

(I have written [not with Ronarry] Hermione saying to Harry, “Okay, but if you like both, wouldn’t it be less trouble to just stick with girls?” To which Harry responded with something like, “I don’t know, Hermione, wouldn’t it have been less trouble if you’d just told Ron you liked him and spared us sixth year?” But I digress.)

Re: Hermione’s canon jealousy. I’m not really saying that setting birds on them is outside the range of in-character responses from Hermione, if Ron and Harry get together. She might well do that. If you want the key drama of your story to be how the Trio reconcile after that upset, it’s a viable option.

Rather, I’m trying to make a case that being more chill is also in character for her. Mostly because every time I see a Ronarry post around, at least one reply is something like, “Oh no, Hermione’s gonna try to kill them!” And it’s just… we don’t have to play it that way.

Re: Lavender Brown. Oh, absolutely Hermione feels superior to Lavender! She also feels that Ron is dating Lavender just to spite her! This is most obvious in the fact that her counter-move is to go out with McLaggan, who is a caricature of masculinity in the same way that (in Hermione’s view) Lavender is a caricature of femininity. I don’t think she learned that lesson in sixth year, either. I don’t think she learned that lesson until after the war.

I’m not sure you need to apologize for that! This was about Hermione, after all, and I’m the one who mentioned Ginny. 🙂

Exactly! I would never underestimate platonic Ronarry because it’s so freaking cute. I think it’s  important to show that two boys can be affectionate around each other (be cuddly and give each other kisses and stuff) and not be gay. So many men hesitate before being affectionate around their male friends because they’re afraid that people would think that they’re gay. J.K Rowling is definitely heteronormative but she deserves credit for writing Ron/Harry the way she did. It’s arguably the best friendship in the series and a beautiful representation of a healthy friendship between two boys.

Honestly, not only does loving Ronarry as an AU ship prevent me from sleeping on their platonic relationship, it also prevents me from turning into a delusional shipper (which is my fear.) While I love making shitposts and headcanons about Ron and Harry having a crush on each other, I think it’s good to remember that they’re just a figment of my imagination. I don’t want our fandom to turn into those Dreary and H*rmione shippers, and insist that there’s proof that Ron and Harry were in love with each other, and everyone else (including the author) was too blind to see it.

Fair enough. I guess it’s easier to address Hinny than the Romione. The Romione is more complicated than Hinny. And yes, Luna’s right there! Maybe we feel guilty about Hermione because we don’t ship Hermione with anyone who isn’t Ron? :’D

Rather, I’m trying to make a case that being more chill is also in character for her. Mostly because every time I see a Ronarry post around, at least one reply is something like, “Oh no, Hermione’s gonna try to kill them!” And it’s just… we don’t have to play it that way.

I agree. Like I’ve said, it’s bad to turn a female character into a psycho just to put two men together, but I was just pointing out that we’re overestimating Hermione if we expect her to be completely chill about Ron and Harry being a couple. Especially if you consider that Canon!Hermione is Ronsexual. Hermione reacting like, “I will kill you both!!! Ron Weasley is Hermione Granger’s property!!!” is ridiculous but Hermione turning into a yaoi fangirl and being all “Oh my god yay!!! OTP!! Go gays! Time to write Ronarry smut” is even more ridiculous. (You’d be surprised how often I’ve seen jokes about Ronarry being a fetish for Hermione. Jokes that I’ve admittedly reblogged as well. 😳)

She also feels that Ron is dating Lavender just to spite her!

Ugh don’t even get me started on this! Why would Hermione think that? Oh, nvm. According to Hermione, “We’re allowed to bring guests” somehow means “I’m in love you and I want to have your babies.” *sigh* Seriously, if Ron wanted to spite Hermione, he would’ve dated someone like Malfoy or Pansy, but he dated the first girl who showed interest in him. Thus, proving that the Lavender thing was more about his own insecurities than anything to do with “being spiteful to Hermione.”

“I don’t think she learned that lesson in sixth year, either. I don’t think she learned that lesson until after the war.”

Really? 😦 Alright then. I’m trying not to digress but how do you address this in your fics?

(I have written [not with Ronarry] Hermione saying to Harry, “Okay, but if you like both, wouldn’t it be less trouble to just stick with girls?” To which Harry responded with something like, “I don’t know, Hermione, wouldn’t it have been less trouble if you’d just told Ron you liked him and spared us sixth year?” But I digress.)

Oh snap.

Which fic is this?! I’d like to read it. 🙂

Loving all of this thread! 

Also, I’m definitely guilty of making (and reblogging) those ‘Hermione has a thing about Rarry/Harron’ posts. Which, looking back, doesn’t really make a lot of sense. As much as it’s funny to write about, it’s very unlikely Hermione would find the prospect of her little-sort-of-brother snogged her ginger crush to be an attractive one.