Why does everyone always ask this when I mention this?….
Cornwall has it’s own distinct Celtic identity, with it’s own language (now currently undergoing a revival), national flag, national saint (St. Piran), as well as it’s own unique history. Cornwall also had it’s own line of monarchs, many of whom left monuments that are still standing today.
On ancient maps, Cornwall was known as ‘West Wales’ because it was more similar to Wales than it was to England, despite being physically connected to England instead of Wales.
Originally, the Cornish were one part of several large Celtic tribes that lived in the West-Country region of the southern British Isles. The tribe was known as ‘The Dumnonii’ and inhabited what it now known as Devon and Cornwall. However, the parts of the tribe living in Devon eventually became absorbed into the kingdom of the Angle-Saxons, which later became known as England.
Those of the tribe living in Cornwall, on the other hand, were protected by the Tamar River, which divides almost the whole of Cornwall from England. The Cornish were also protected by their wild climate, as many parts of North Cornwall (the bit nearest to England) is covered by moorland. As a result, the Cornish were largely left alone by the English, aside from in trade and commerce.
It was only until the Norman Dynasty of English kings that Cornwall began to be ruled by the English.
The Cornish language was actively discouraged, and English domination was so strong that the language became extinct in the 18th century.
The Cornish are an officially-recognised minority. Cornish food (such as Cornish Clotted Cream, Pasties and other delicacies) are protected under UK law. Cornwall is also recognised as one of the six Celtic nations (the others being Scotland, Wales, Ireland, Brittany and the Isle of Man).
Many people in Cornwall refer to themselves as Cornish rather than English, and consider England to start at the Tamar River. However, most English people consider Cornwall to be ‘English’, and most history textbooks tend to put the English perspective as the accepted view on the matter.
I am Cornish rather than English. Although I am half-English on one of my parents’ side, I was born and raised in Cornwall. I consider myself British, but at a push, I’d refer to myself as Cornish rather than English.
Thanks for the ask, anon; hope that cleared up any confusion! I know most people outside of Cornwall don’t realise this.
(Me and a customer at work were talking about heritage while I rung up their shopping bill)
It gets even more complicated when you say ‘I’m British, not English’. (No offence to my American followers, you guys are awesome).
HOLD ON!
Teach my American ass, please! Because your tags have me questioning everything I thought I knew.
It’s been my understanding that to be British means you’re from Great Britain. To be English means you’re from England.
All English people are British but not all British people are English.
Like JKR and David Tennant, they’re from Scottland so they’re Scottish not English. People from Wales are Welsh, not Scottish or English but they’re all British because Scotland, England, and Wales form Great Britain.
That’s my understanding of it all.
Now, I would figure people from Cornwall are English because it’s in England. But they’re not? They’re Cornish?
Is it an official thing or an understanding?
Like here in New York there’s an understanding that the term “New Yorker” is reserved for people from the NYC area. If you live in Upstate NY you’re “From New York” not a “New Yorker”. They can call themselves New Yorkers and technically wouldn’t be wrong since they are from NY state but they’ed get side-eyed.
Is it that kinda thing where people from Cornwall could technically call themselves English but it’s goes against decorum or is it officially stated that people from Cornwall are Cornish, not English.
Are there other places in England where people are not considered English but… whatever they’re called?
I was taught there were three kinds of British: English, Scottish and Welsh, never any mention of
Cornish.
(And that people from Northern Ireland are not British but from the UK.)
How wrong was I taught?
@pynki Yes, you are correct on much of that. The reason I brought up Cornwall is that it isn’t really ‘English’. If anything, it’s more similar to Wales and Scotland than England (on early maps of Britain, it was even referred to as ‘West Wales’, despite Cornwall being connected by land to England rather than Wales).
It’s fairly simple. Cornwall is one of the six Celtic nations of North-West Europe (the others being Scotland, Wales, Ireland, Brittany and the Isle of Man). Cornwall was an independent country right up until the Norman dynasty of English Royalty (in the 1000s), and still has a unique culture which is separate from England; complete with its own language (which is becoming more widely spoken after it became ‘extinct’ a few centuries ago), it’s own flag (see below) and it’s own national saint (St. Piran, who has a saint’s day on 5 March).
I don’t blame you for getting confused. Most people who aren’t from a Celtic background don’t know that Cornwall doesn’t even consider itself English. Heck, most of the English don’t even consider Cornwall to be non-English. The Cornish tourism board referred to it as ‘The Cornish used to be independent, but the English forgot’. Many Cornish people consider England to start at the Tamar River, which separates Cornwall from the English county of Devon.
Many people in Cornwall don’t consider themselves to be English, but either Cornish, British, or some mix (i.e. Cornish-British). We have an ancient history that stretches back into the time of legends (King Arthur’s Camelot is rumoured to have been in the Cornish town of Tintagel, for example). We have our own national cuisine (Cornish Pasties being a favourite, of course), and our own form of tartan (yellow checked) which is often used for our own form of kilts.
The Cornish have largely been ignored by the history books due to English domination (I believe the Cornish language was deliberately stamped out, and went ‘extinct’ in the 1700s, until a resurgence in the 20th century revived the language). Although the so-called ‘Cornish Diaspora’ is enormous, stretching across the world from California to South Africa to Australia. The Cornish are now considered a official minority, and Cornish national foods are now protected under law.
Hope that cleared things up!
@headcanonsandmore Oh wow, that’s… kinda sad. To have a whole culture and people ignored like that.
I can empathize. A few friends and did a DNA test and ancestry thing and they were confused as to how I was, I forget the exact number but something like 30% Native American but the map that came along showed My ancestors being on the island for hundreds of years, only immigrating to the US very recently, like my grandparents recent.
I had to explain to them the Columbas didn’t land on an uninhabited island, and that 30% is the Taino Indians that originally inhabited the island before Spain took it over. Hell, Puerto Rico didn’t become the official name of the island until 1898. Historians believed the Taino people had gone extinct until DNA testing proved them wrong. It’s very interesting, it was shown that the indigenous gene is passed down through the mother, so during the Taino genocide when they killed off the men they thought that was the end of us. Nope, they inadvertently preserved the Taino bloodline by raping and marrying off the women.
And recently there’s been a movement in PR to bring back the Arawakan language our ancestors used to speak, because shocker, Spanish isn’t the native language of Puerto Rico.
So I completely get your need to distinguish yourself as Cornish, not English. To want to hold on to your culture even thou a “greater nation” tried to stamp it out.
I never knew there were 6 Celtic nations, I thought it was just Ireland, Scottland, and Wales. (TBH never heard of Wales until I got into Arthurian legend as a teenager. Legit squealed at your mention of Camelot and High-key jealous you’re that close to where Camelot could have been. How Awesome is that? ) I thought Brittany was just the old-school name for Britain and never even heard of the Isle of Man.
They don’t teach that kinda stuff here in America. The only reason I was taught the difference between the UK, Britain, and England was because I asked my history teacher one day after class because I was curious. He was awesome, we sat there for like an hour while he taught me the difference and about the Tudor dynasty. I was really fascinated by Henry the VIII. We’re taught the political side of history, what caused what war and how it ended, but never the personal side I was more interested in so he humored me.
And national foods protected under law? Is that like how Champaign can only come from a certain region of France and Tequila can only come from Tequila, Mexico otherwise it has to be called something else?
@pynki Tell me about it. As a History nerd, it deeply upsets me that most of my own history is largely unknown.
Colonialism sucks. I hate the fact that cultures were eradicated simply because another culture thought them ‘unworthy’. It’s awful that so many cultures had their histories erased due to the machinations of colonial powers. I’m glad that the previously-repressed cultures are beginning to flourish again.
Nah, Brittany’s a part of France with a Celtic past. It’s called ‘Brittany’ because the ancient Celts were called ‘Britons’ and eventually that led to their lands being called similar things. The Celts moved back over to France from Britain in the 5th century AD, to get away from invaders. The Isle of Man is an large island inbetween Great Britain and Ireland; it’s home to one of the oldest parliaments in the world (but is more known nowadays for motorbike racing).
Aw, thank you! I do think it’s pretty cool that I live so close to all these myths and legends. My home town even has a myth about a massive dragon living nearby. Arthurian legends and old Celtic myths are sort-of part of the stonework in my local area, so I guess I never really noticed it until I moved into England for university. I suppose you don’t realise what you have until it’s not there anymore. Cornwall features quite heavily in the old Celtic (and Arthurian myths), and it’s got tonnes of myths that are still prevalent today. St. Michaels Mount, for example, is a small island off the south coast, and is home to the myth of ‘Jack the giant killer’, who killed an evil giant called
Cormoran that lived on the island.
Yeah, the Celtic nations thing is only really recognised in Europe. Most of the rest of the world isn’t that aware of it. From what I’ve gathered from Tumblr, most people don’t even know that England and Britain aren’t the same thing. That was really good of your teacher to explain it to you; the personal side of history is often ignored. Oh, I love the Tudor period too! (Although we get taught it all the time in British schools, so most people get bored of it).
Yep. Same sort of idea. Cornish Pasties have to be made using a Cornish recipe, or the manufacturer has to just call them ‘pasties’ instead. Same deal for Cornish clotted cream. It’s a way to make things easier for the local producers, as well as preventing the market getting swamped with shoddy knock-offs.
It gets even more complicated when you say ‘I’m British, not English’. (No offence to my American followers, you guys are awesome).
HOLD ON!
Teach my American ass, please! Because your tags have me questioning everything I thought I knew.
It’s been my understanding that to be British means you’re from Great Britain. To be English means you’re from England.
All English people are British but not all British people are English.
Like JKR and David Tennant, they’re from Scottland so they’re Scottish not English. People from Wales are Welsh, not Scottish or English but they’re all British because Scotland, England, and Wales form Great Britain.
That’s my understanding of it all.
Now, I would figure people from Cornwall are English because it’s in England. But they’re not? They’re Cornish?
Is it an official thing or an understanding?
Like here in New York there’s an understanding that the term “New Yorker” is reserved for people from the NYC area. If you live in Upstate NY you’re “From New York” not a “New Yorker”. They can call themselves New Yorkers and technically wouldn’t be wrong since they are from NY state but they’ed get side-eyed.
Is it that kinda thing where people from Cornwall could technically call themselves English but it’s goes against decorum or is it officially stated that people from Cornwall are Cornish, not English.
Are there other places in England where people are not considered English but… whatever they’re called?
I was taught there were three kinds of British: English, Scottish and Welsh, never any mention of
Cornish.
(And that people from Northern Ireland are not British but from the UK.)
How wrong was I taught?
@pynki Yes, you are correct on much of that. The reason I brought up Cornwall is that it isn’t really ‘English’. If anything, it’s more similar to Wales and Scotland than England (on early maps of Britain, it was even referred to as ‘West Wales’, despite Cornwall being connected by land to England rather than Wales).
It’s fairly simple. Cornwall is one of the six Celtic nations of North-West Europe (the others being Scotland, Wales, Ireland, Brittany and the Isle of Man). Cornwall was an independent country right up until the Norman dynasty of English Royalty (in the 1000s), and still has a unique culture which is separate from England; complete with its own language (which is becoming more widely spoken after it became ‘extinct’ a few centuries ago), it’s own flag (see below) and it’s own national saint (St. Piran, who has a saint’s day on 5 March).
I don’t blame you for getting confused. Most people who aren’t from a Celtic background don’t know that Cornwall doesn’t even consider itself English. Heck, most of the English don’t even consider Cornwall to be non-English. The Cornish tourism board referred to it as ‘The Cornish used to be independent, but the English forgot’. Many Cornish people consider England to start at the Tamar River, which separates Cornwall from the English county of Devon.
Many people in Cornwall don’t consider themselves to be English, but either Cornish, British, or some mix (i.e. Cornish-British). We have an ancient history that stretches back into the time of legends (King Arthur’s Camelot is rumoured to have been in the Cornish town of Tintagel, for example). We have our own national cuisine (Cornish Pasties being a favourite, of course), and our own form of tartan (yellow checked) which is often used for our own form of kilts.
The Cornish have largely been ignored by the history books due to English domination (I believe the Cornish language was deliberately stamped out, and went ‘extinct’ in the 1700s, until a resurgence in the 20th century revived the language). Although the so-called ‘Cornish Diaspora’ is enormous, stretching across the world from California to South Africa to Australia. The Cornish are now considered a official minority, and Cornish national foods are now protected under law.
It gets even more complicated when you say ‘I’m British, not English’. (No offence to my American followers, you guys are awesome).
@rosebadwolf1000 The British and the English aren’t exactly the same thing. All the English are technically British, but not all the British are English. Many of the Scots, Welsh and Cornish (not to mention various other peoples) don’t consider themselves English, but British (which is more of an umbrella term). Hope that helps clear things up.
Headcanonsandmore 